I DLC li farò entrambi miei quando verranno scontati su Steam.

Giocato un paio d'ore abbondanti.

Devo dire che mi ha un po' stupito, me l'aspettavo, boh, "diverso"?!

Atmosfera a palla, colori sgargianti, mi pare anche si difenda molto bene anche dal punto di vista grafico, seppur la cosa si paghi ovviamente con una fluidità non eccelsa.

Se non fosse per gli inevitabili caricamenti a volte sembrerebbe un mezzo freeroaming. Vediamo un po' come procede in seguito...

Grazie al weekend "lungo" regalato dal 25 aprile sono andato avanti speditamente.

In sostanza ho appena abbordato il dirigibile e fatto fuori Comstock , mentre adesso grazie alla collaborazione del redivivo uccello di latta è in corso una battaglia DeWitt versus Resto Del Mondo, con il Resto Del Mondo in discreto vantaggio. Tuttavia non demordo. :ciao:

Domanda: sono in dirittura d'arrivo o manca ancora molto?

Sulla trama sinceramente boh, da quando Elizabeth ha cominciato a porsi quelle domande pseudo-esistenziali sulla realtà reale e quella alternativa ho rinunciato a cercare di capire cosa stesse succedendo e quel che ho visto in seguito (ivi inclusi fantasmi e morti che resuscitano) devo dire che non mi ha fatto minimamente pentire.

Sei vicino alla fine.

Finito.

Ho visto che nel post precedente ti sei lamentato di un paio delle tante minchiate apocalittiche che io credo abbia il gioco. La piega che prende la trama a gioco bene inoltrato, e quando capita tutta la roba oscena sui fantasmi.

A conti fatti, t'è piaciuto? Lo ritieni all'altezza del primo? (sempre che tu lo abbia giocato, s'intende)

Citazione di: Turrican3 il 29 Aprile, 2014, 23:30:41
Finito.

C'è qualcosa che non hai afferrato?   

@Joe / @ Blu
Appena ho un secondo di tempo proverò a fare il punto della situazione.

No perché io alla fine non ci ho capito granché, mi sono dovuto far aiutare da qualcuno, ma sono famoso per queste cose. 

Anch'io sono stato "obbligato" a leggere un'analisi/spiegazione in Rete.

Allora, per Bioshock Infinite devo necessariamente spendere più di qualche riga.

Premetto però che della trama del primo non mi ricordo praticamente nulla (come al solito ), e che le mie impressioni si possono trovare qui --> http://www.gamers4um.it/public/smf/index.php?topic=2044.msg40763#msg40763

Stavolta comincio subito col togliermi i sassolini delle cose che NON mi sono piaciute a 'sto giro.

La prima cosa ahimè è l'intreccio narrativo.
Posterò in seguito un maxispiegone che ho trovato & letto (ovviamente dopo averlo completato...), che però mi ha lasciato comunque perplesso.

Ok le numerose realtà "alternative", che peraltro sono esplicitate in maniera chiarissima nel finale con i millemila fari, ma ci sono troppe cose rimaste in sospeso.

Innanzitutto DeWitt = Comstock... non è forse un paradosso che il primo riesca a far fuori il secondo?! Da dove si evinceva insomma che gli squarci consentissero di viaggiare anche nel tempo? E sempre a tal proposito, mi son perso pure (ammesso che ci fosse) la spiegazione sul perchè Elizabeth era in grado di crearli "autonomamente", diciamo così. Della questione del fantasma ho già detto prima.

Insomma dopo quel finale mi sono sentito un mezzo scemo nel rendermi conto di non averci capito quasi nulla di 3/5 del gioco, così a caldo.
No dico, del ritorno a Rapture ne vogliamo parlare?!

Ma passiamo ora a cose più strettamente ludiche.

In sintesi: credo che Levine non abbia sfruttato a fondo gli anni di distanza (e le migliorìe che è lecito attendersi ne conseguano) dal primo Bioshock, nel senso che alcuni elementi critici si sono riproposti in maniera spaventosamente simile.

Una certa ripetitività di fondo del gameplay, scarsi incentivi allo sfruttamento dei Vigor, un parco armi limitato e talvolta confusionario (c'era DAVVERO bisogno di, come le chiamavano, mitragliatrice e mitragliatore? ) e last but not least, mi son beccato un potenziamento che consentiva di spammare l'attacco corpo a corpo rigenerando l'energia di DeWitt, rendendo svariati assalti nemici una mezza passeggiata.

Gli unici aspetti dove ritengo che si possa riscontrare un oggettivo miglioramento rispetto a Bioshock sono (ovviamente) la grafica, se possibile ancor più evocativa che restituisce una Columbia piacevolissima e soprattutto varia da esplorare; un aumento della componente strategica, per le parti in cui si sfrutta l'aiuto di Elizabeth; ed in parte la sparizione delle vita chamber, rimpiazzate da un lieve danno economico e dal ripristino di un po' di energia nei nemici dopo ogni nostra uccisione. Il gioco rimane comunque perlopiù abbastanza abbordabile, a parte il picco dell'assalto finale dove forse qualche checkpoint in più non avrebbe guastato - nel corso dell'avventura li ho trovati ottimamente posizionati e mai frustranti.

E poi devo anche dire un'altra cosa: forse Irrational ha fatto il passo più lungo della gamba.
All'inizio del gioco infatti quando vedi tutti quei NPC che discutono tra loro ti immagini che più avanti vedrai chissà cosa... idem dicasi per quando ho sbloccato il vigor della scarica elettrica, che pensavo/speravo avrebbe aperto le porte ad una serie di puzzle ambientali con maggiore interazione. Invece nulla di tutto questo, la componente dei NPC si affievolisce tempo zero, e presto ci ritroveremo pure obbligati a combattere contro nemici che ahimè non brillano per varietà ed ispirazione nel design. Stesso discorso per le Skyline che finiscono per impattare molto meno di quanto si potesse pensare nell'economia del gioco... non parliamo poi della pur minima componente puzzle di Bioshock 1 che qui risulta totalmente azzerata.

Il videogioco però è una brutta (bella?) bestia. Talvolta capita che riesca a toccarti delle corde che non immagineresti.
Quindi mi ritrovo a concludere queste righe con un: COMPRATELO.

Compratelo, anche se forse non serve a nulla (Irrational, come ricorderete, è stata smantellata poche settimane addietro), perchè nel contesto di mercato odierno un FPS che rappresenta una voce fuori dal coro IMHO va premiato: colori sgargianti, ambientazioni da urlo una più d'atmosfera dell'altra, localizzazione di ottima fattura, ma più in generale soprattutto la sensazione che, a prescindere dal risultato complessivo di un prodotto che resta "di massa", Levine volesse davvero puntare a qualcosa di grande, che non fosse il solito shooter bellico in toni di grigio.

Personalmente, e nonostante magagne ludiche recidive e non banali (specie per me che assegno un peso enorme alla giocabilità nuda e cruda) questa Columbia mi ha affascinato, come e forse più di Rapture. :)

Citazione di: SPOILERISSIMI COME SE PIOVESSE!!!Let’s start at the beginning. Where is the beginning? If you’ve played the game, you’ll understand the question. Where exactly does the story actually begin? For the purpose of this post, we’re going to start with the events that take place at and following the branching point that spawned the various universes the game covers. Yes, the game spans multiple universes, in case you hadn’t already figured that out. All of these possible universes have a starting point.

Every choice warrants a decision. That decision has consequences, and those consequences can change everything. BioShock Infinite is the story of how one of these choices branched out into two theoretical universes, and how those two universes are brought together.

Zero Hour
Booker DeWitt has done a lot of wrong in his life. He’s plagued by guilt. Having reached a point of desperation, he finds himself at a lake waiting to be baptized. We see this scene play out early in the final revelation. Booker has a choice. He can accept or decline to be baptized. In the version we see, he initially accepts, but then changes his mind. In another possible universe, he is baptized and becomes a new man. This is the point that splits the future. This single choice is the linchpin that the entire game pivots on. This is zero hour.

Many players may find themselves wondering which choice is the “real” choice. Which decision did Booker “really” make? The answer is that he really made both choices. This is the point of parallel universes. Booker’s choice created two very different men in two very different versions of the future.

Let’s pick a path and follow it. It’s important that you don’t presume to know anything about either of these paths. The first path we’ll look at is the one we see in-game.

The First Path
Booker takes the preacher’s hand, but then changes his mind, flees the lake, and lives with his guilt. He turns to the bottle and gambling. He ends up in debt to some very undesirable people.

The year is now 1893 (possibly ’94). When he is unable to pay his debts, a man shows up at his door and offers a way out: “bring us the girl and wipe away the debt.” The girl here is his daugther, Anna DeWitt. She is an infant. He has no other choice, so he agrees. He hands the child over and the man leaves.

Booker immediately realizes what a stupid thing he has done and goes after the man and Anna. He catches up to them in an alley. A portal is open on the wall in front of them. An unknown second man stands beside them. A voice comes through the portal instructing the men to come through. As Booker charges toward them, they climb through the wall into another universe. Booker grabs onto Anna and tries to pull her back, but he is overpowered. As she slips through the portal, it closes, severing her pinky finger at the middle knuckle. Booker is filled with more guilt than ever. He returns to his apartment, which doubles as his private investigator’s office, and drowns his sorrows for nearly two decades. He brands the back of his hand with his daughter’s initials as an act of penance, but nothing can take away the guilt.

One day, a portal opens inside his apartment. A man on the other side beckons him. As he steps through, he is pushed to the ground. Two people hold him halfway through the portal. He has entered a parallel universe. His mind struggles to remember anything, but because he now has two memories spanning two universes, he can’t keep anything straight. Parts of the world he came from bleed into his understanding of the world he has been pulled into.

Booker becomes convinced that the offer to “wipe away the debt” is related to his quest to find Elizabeth. His corrupted memory recalls the man who took Anna not as a debt collector, but as a client. As the man tells his co-conspirator, “He’s manufacturing new memories from his old ones.” He now believes that this man has hired him to find a girl named Elizabeth and return her to New York. He is briefed on the boat, dropped on the dock, enters the lighthouse, and begins the series of events seen in the game.

The Second Path
Booker takes the preacher’s hand and is baptized. He takes on a new name to reflect his new life: Zachary Hale Comstock. He becomes a man of God. He dreams up a city in the sky. He builds Columbia.

A Columbian scientist named Rosalind Lutece builds a machine that can open holes, or “tears,” in space and time. Comstock takes an interest in the machine, which is kept a secret from the public, and spends an unusual amount of time at the Lutece lab. His wife, Lady Comstock, believes that he is having an affair with Rosalind, but determines to forgive him because he forgave her for her wrongdoings.

What Comstock is really up to is perhaps far more sinister. He is using the machine to peer into future worlds, and using his knowledge of these future world’s to pose as an all-knowing prophet. He predicts that “the seed of the prophet shall sit the throne and drown in flames the mountains of man.”

Zachary also sees that Booker will one day enter his world searching for his daughter. To counter this, he predicts the rise of a “false prophet” who will attempt to mislead “the Lamb of Columbia” and take her off of this predetermined path. The “false prophet” bears a mark on his hand: the letters “AD.” He instructs the people of Columbia to watch for this mark and destroy the “false prophet” so that the “Lamb of Columbia,” Elizabeth, can take his place and destroy the evil outside world, which he refers to as “the Sodom below.”

Comstock wishes to have a child, but his overexposure to Lutece’s machine has rendered him sterile. However, he is aware of a parallel universe in which he has a daughter. He commissions Rosalind to create a tear that can take him back to 1893 to get his own child and bring her back to Columbia. She opens a tear for Comstock to pass through, and he tracks down her other-worldly counterpart. In this universe, Rosalind was not born a girl, but rather a boy named Robert. Robert Lutece goes to Booker’s door and makes him an offer: “bring us the girl and wipe away the debt.” Booker, a broken man, hands over his daughter to this stranger.

Lutece and Comstock return to the alley where Rosalind is waiting with a tear open for them to return to Columbia. Suddenly, Booker appears in the alley. Comstock and Robert Lutece climb through the hole and back into their own world. The child is nearly taken from them, but they manage to pull her through. The portal closes on her finger and severs it.

Robert Lutece is now trapped in Columbia, where is mind is forced to cope with all of the changes that go along with trans-dimensional travel. (We see evidence of this in the game’s finale. When Booker is dragged into the alternate world, Rosalind comments that “the brain adapts.” Robert replies, “I should know… I lived it.”) The Luteces, who are actually two parallel versions of the same person from different timelines, live as siblings and tell people in Columbia that they are twins.

Zachary, however, does not have such a clean excuse for the sudden appearance of a new member in his own family. He must now explain to the public why he suddenly has a baby. His wife believes the child is the result of his affair with Rosalind Lutece. Rosalind denies this allegation, and Zachary tells the people that this girl is a miracle child. He explains to them that his wife was only pregnant for a single week, and that this miracle baby is the foretold “seed of the prophet” who will take his place when he dies. The people, who have worshiped Comstock for years, readily accept this explanation.

His wife and the Lutece “twins,” however, know that the child, now called Elizabeth, is not truly Zachary Comstock’s child. Comstock murders his wife and places the blame on a rebel group called the Vox Populi (Latin for “Voice of the People”). He also murders the Luteces, but they have already mastered the art of trans-universal travel and are able to travel from a universe in which they are still alive, track down Booker DeWitt in his own universe, and bring him into Columbia to assassinate Comstock.

It is soon discovered that Elizabeth possesses the ability to open tears of her own between worlds at will. While the source of her power is never explained in the game, I hypothesize that the portal closing on her finger is what imbued her with the ability to create new tears. Somehow, the barrier of time and space was embedded in her hand during the accident, giving her unprecedented control over it without the aid of machines like Rosalind’s.

She is locked away in the Tower of Columbia on Monument Island, where she is observed in secret and kept in solitude for nineteen years. A machine called the Siphon is built in the base of the tower, presumably by Rosalind Lutece. This device drains Elizabeth’s powers so that she cannot create new tears, only open existing ones. She is not kept in a jail cell, but provided full living quarters, new clothes, books, and more to entertain herself. She is protected by the mysterious mechanical Songbird, whose origin is never actually explained (at least, as far as I can tell).

In the “clean” version of this timeline, Elizabeth takes over her father’s role at his passing. We witness her as an old woman in the 1980s, leading Columbia as they bomb New York. Prior to this, Booker mentioned that he had dreamed of New York burning. This was likely not a real dream, but a fabricated memory based on things he had witnessed as Zachary Comstock. The false memory would have been created by the mental distress he suffered during his transposition from one world to another.

This timeline can also be achieved through a different set of events, in which Booker does come for Elizabeth but is pushed through a tear into the 1980s and fails to save her from her father (as seen in the game). Elizabeth is then brainwashed by her father to hate the world and takes up his mission to destroy it, fulfilling his “prophecy” that she (“the seed of the prophet”) would “drown in fire the mountains of men.”

Convergence
One day the ceiling collapses and a man falls into Elizabeth’s library. This man is Booker DeWitt, and this is our introduction to Elizabeth in the game. This is the second crucial point in time that cements the direction of the events in the game. If Booker had never made it to this point, it is likely nothing would have changed in Zachary Comstock’s world. In fact, until this point, Comstock didn’t even know that Booker had been brought into this world. Once Zachary recognized the man as a younger version of himself, he knew why he was there and that he must stop him from taking back Elizabeth.

Breaking the Chain
Near the end of the game, Booker kills Comstock and destroys the Siphon, allowing Elizabeth to return to her full power and create new tears to any universe she desires. She opens a tear and transports herself and Booker to a world most players are already familiar with: Rapture, the undersea city from the first two BioShock games. Specifically, they are standing in the room where the main character in the first game finds his very first Plasmid.

They backtrack through the map, going down the stairs and out to the dock where the bathyspheres are located. They take one of the submersibles out of the city the same way Andrew Ryan’s son initially came to the city. They find themselves standing at the lighthouse where the events of the first game started in a scene that played out much like the opening to their own story.

They pass through the door, but instead of the lighthouse interior, we find a realm that exists outside of space and time. There are millions of lighthouses here, all leading to different universes. Elizabeth tells Booker that although Comstock is dead in one universe, he is alive in many others. DeWitt determines to find and kill Comstock as a baby, ensuring that he never has a chance to hurt anyone. Instead, Elizabeth uses the lighthouses to jump to different points in Booker’s past, ultimately returning him to the baptism site and allowing him to see what would happen if he accepts his new life.

He finally comes to understand that he is both Booker DeWitt and Zachary Comstock. Elizabeth does the only thing she can do: she drowns Booker in the lake in the world where he normally would have accepted the baptism, thus negating both timelines and destroying the Comstock timeline.

Booker never accepts the offer of baptism. He never takes on the name Zachary Comstock. He never builds Columbia. He never meets Rosalind and never kidnaps Anna. By extension, in his own world he never sells his daughter to pay his gambling debts. He never lives for two decades with his guilt.

The various parallel versions of Elizabeth that have gathered at the lake slowly disappear as their futures and lives are erased from the realm of possibility. Only one remains, but she isn’t Elizabeth. She is Anna, and as the post-credits scene reveals, she is still alive and well with Booker in his own timeline.

http://www.mikebeas.com/2013/03/27/the-path-not-taken-a-full-explanation-of-bioshock-infinites-crazy-finale/

Questa l'analisi che ho trovato... ovviamente si tratta di un MEGA-FANTA-ULTRA-SUPER-SPOILER da leggere solo DOPO aver completato Bioshock Infinite.

Purtroppo non ho il tempo di dirti cosa ne penso in dettaglio, ma per molte cose che scrivi ti do ragione al 100%.

Vorrei solo aggiungere che sarebbe stato ancora più interessante vedere il gioco sdoganato al cento per cento nella trama e i contenuti originariamente pensati da Levine. Mesi fa lessi un'intervista su GamesTM in cui Levine disse di aver avuto grossi contrasti all'interno del team per i contenuti da lui previsti per il gioco ( col senno di poi, sicuramente si riferiva al discorso razzismo toccato più volte nel gioco ), contrasti dovuti soprattutto alla multietnia dei membri della softco a lavoro sul gioco. Secondo me anche sotto il profilo prettamente ludico è stato richiesto un passo indietro durante lo sviluppo, difatti i primi trailer mostravano cose non più viste nel gioco finale (e davano anche l'idea di uno sfruttamento maggiore delle rotaie). Chissà se mai uscirà un post mortem che ci mostri come sarebbe stato il gioco nella sua visione originale. :)

Sarebbe certamente interessante sapere cosa frullava davvero per la testa a Levine.

@Blu
Ho ripensato a quella cosa del sonoro in stereo... ma non è che per caso ti è saltata qualche spunta nella configurazione dell'audio PS3?
Mi pare troppo troppo strano che un gioco esca in DTS ma non in DD... :mmmm:

Nope:
http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/bioshock-infinite-6060/what-the-f-1439837/

Se me lo fossi giocato ora avrei potuto godermi il DTS 
Va beh, ormai.

Ah, prometto che entro il week end leggerò tutto quello che hai scritto XD