Citazione di: Bluforce il  9 Settembre, 2023, 19:09:30Ci sarebbe anche un'altra strada per favorire la diffusione del DLSS.
Renderlo OpenSource e non bloccarlo sistematicamente alle nuove GPU, ove tecnicamente possibile.

Rimanendo in tema Switch 2, pare ci sia un brevetto Nintendo per gli analogici "magnetici", col cosiddetto Hall Effect insomma, tecnologia in grado di debellare il famigerato drift degli analogici.

Sarebbe anche ora.

Per entrambe (se tecnicamente fattibile la prima come dici giustamente, non ho idea) le cose.

Citazione di: Bluforce il  9 Settembre, 2023, 19:09:30Ci sarebbe anche un'altra strada per favorire la diffusione del DLSS.
Renderlo OpenSource e non bloccarlo sistematicamente alle nuove GPU, ove tecnicamente possibile.

Sono d'accordo. Però non è di per sè sufficiente, vista la fatica che fa FSR a ingranare.

https://famiboards.com/threads/future-nintendo-hardware-technology-speculation-discussion-st-read-the-staff-posts-before-commenting.55/post-814858

Riassunto è talmente lungo che sono obbligato a metterlo in blocco e "spezzarlo" in due post.

Blocco nascosto

BotW Switch 2 Tech Demo - Load Time & Resolution

• NateDrake mentioned Gamescom 2023 was the first time since GDC 2023 developers can meet in person, which leads to conversations, which leads to media hearing about information shared during these conventions and industry events, like the tech demos for the Nintendo Switch's successor
• NateDrake also mentioned Gamescom 2023 was a good opportunity for Nintendo and its partners to bring tech demos to demonstrate exactly what the Nintendo Switch's successor could potentially offer when it comes into the market
• And NateDrake mentioned that once Gamescom 2023 was over, two reports were released: one from Eurogamer and one from Video Games Chronicle
• NateDrake started with Eurogamer's report where Eurogamer reported one of the two tech demos Nintendo showed off for the Nintendo Switch's successor was a souped up version of Breath of the Wild, which was designed to the Nintendo Switch's successor's beefier target specs, although there's no suggestion Breath of the Wild's planned to be re-released for the Nintendo Switch's successor
• NateDrake and MVG were confused by people asking if the Breath of the Wild tech demo confirms that the Nintendo Switch's successor has backwards compatibility
• These are the pieces of information about the Breath of the Wild tech demo that NateDrake has heard about, but Eurogamer didn't report on
• The Breath of the Wild tech demo was running at 4K at 60 fps via DLSS
• The actual key focus of the Breath of the Wild tech demo was to showcase improved load times
• NateDrake mentioned that when playing Breath of the Wild on the Nintendo Switch, the time it took from going from the main menu to an in-game save was around 30 seconds
• Although 30 seconds is not a terrible loading time, 30 seconds feel like an eternity compared to how fast games on the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X|S load from the main menu to an in-game save, which MVG concurs with
• When running the Breath of the Wild tech demo on the Nintendo Switch's successor (in terms of target specs), what was shown was a smooth transition from the main menu straight to the game, with the load times eliminated
• MVG was surprised, and asked if NateDrake's talking about a significantly enhanced storage that goes way beyond what's currently possible with the Nintendo Switch, with NateDrake saying confirming yes
• MVG asked if NateDrake mentioned 3D NAND, with NateDrake confirming that he did talk about 3D NAND a few episodes ago, with "interesting" as MVG's response
• NateDrake re-iterated that the souped up version of Breath of the Wild is only a tech demo
• MVG mentioned that he tweeted on Twitter a couple days ago that when a hardware maker gets developers in a room and shows tech demos, it's really for showcasing specific features of the hardware
• When MVG asked NateDrake if he heard about which version of DLSS was used, considering the conflicting information, with one source saying DLSS 3.5 initially, which was edited out, and another source saying DLSS 3.1, NateDrake heard that DLSS 3.5 was used, but the full feature set of DLSS 3.5 may not be used
• NateDrake mentioned there's a possibility a feature like Frame Generation may not be utilised in the Nintendo Switch's successor, or wasn't utilised in the tech demos
• NateDrake mentioned there's a little uncertainty on that front for now
• NateDrake mentioned that there's technically nothing preventing DLSS 3.5 from being featured on the Nintendo Switch's successor
• NateDrake hedge his bets that DLSS 3.5 is used for the Nintendo Switch's successor, since DLSS 3.5 is the most advanced form of DLSS, the benefits are definitely there, and DLSS 3.5's something developers can take advantage of
• NateDrake thinks not supporting Frame Generation isn't a big deal since developers are still getting advanced upscaling technology, and developers won't be able to take a game with Frame Generation and radically outperform what developers are getting at the base level
• MVG mentioned the base temporal upsampling is a significant enhancement to what developers currently have on the Nintendo Switch, with the best thing being FSR, which is very simple in terms of upscaling
• MVG thinks the Nintendo Switch's successor's getting DLSS 3.5, a cut down version of DLSS 3.5, or a mobile DLSS 3.5, is pretty big
• MVG says NateDrake's right in saying that DLSS is there for improving performance
• MVG thinks DLSS is one of Nintendo's secret weapons that would give Nintendo a really big advantage going into the next generation of hardware
• NateDrake thinks Nintendo and third party developers can utilise DLSS in significant ways
• And NateDrake thinks DLSS being a base level feature for the hardware will pay dividends for Nintendo and third party developers, since Nintendo can come in with new hardware without having to necessarily compete directly with the Xbox Series X|S and the PlayStation 5 in terms of raw performance to remain competitive, by using DLSS to get a rendered resolution comparable to what the Xbox Series X|S and the PlayStation 5 can output natively without having to render natively, closing the gap in a cheater's type of context, and as a technology of the future
• NateDrake thinks DLSS will make hardware comparisons moot since raw power is no longer a defining factor of hardware
• NateDrake used the comparisons between the PlayStation 2, the GameCube, and the Xbox as an example, where the PlayStation 2 is advertised as supporting up to 66 million polygons, whereas the GameCube supported 6-12 million polygons, and the Xbox supported 120 million polygons
• However, the PlayStation 2's advertised 66 million polygons is only theoretical performance, and the PlayStation 2 only supports closer to 5 million polygons in terms of real world performance
• The Xbox's real world performance never got to be fully utilised due to the PlayStation 2 being the market leader
• The lesson is that raw numbers can't be taken as gospel, and that feature sets, engine support, etc. also has to be taken into account, to determine the true power range of a video game system
• Although the Nintendo Switch's successor won't be as powerful as the Xbox Series S in terms of raw performance, the Nintendo Switch's successor support more modern technologies, which would give the Nintendo Switch's successor a fighting chance to compete with the Xbox Series X|S and the PlayStation 5 in terms of resolution and perhaps frame rates in some scenarios
• MVG thinks the load times on the Nintendo Switch were not the best, but rather okay
• MVG thinks the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X|S spoiled gamers with features like Quick Resume, and most games run very quickly, with some games having an almost seamless gameplay experience, with unnoticeable loading times
• MVG thinks what Nintendo did as a stopgap measure to the noticeable loading times on Nintendo Switch games (e.g. Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom) is reducing the GPU frequencies and increasing the CPU frequencies during loading, which MVG said he did for some of the games he helped developed, which helped, but is not a viable option
• But MVG thinks Nintendo rightly identified better loading times as one of the priorities for the Nintendo Switch's successor, not to necessarily compete with the Xbox Series X|S and the PlayStation 5, but rather come up with a streamlined approach to loading times, since the reality is there's 4K, better visuals, etc., that are making vgames larger, where 10 GB games are no longer the norm, but rather 40+ GB games are the new norm
• NateDrake thinks that Nintendo showcasing a simple fade from the main menu to the game with the Breath of the Wild tech demo is indicative of Nintendo's and Nvidia's priorities with the Nintendo Switch's successor, where Nintendo and Nvidia are aware that loading times are a relic of the past, and these new standards of gaming need to be adopted in order to compete
• NateDrake also thinks that Nintendo can't come in with new hardware that has loading times where there are two systems with quick loading
• NateDrake thinks that demonstrating Breath of the Wild having that instantaneous fade from the main menu to the game is a strong demonstration of the Nintendo Switch's successor's capabilities, which impressing him more than seeing and hearing that Breath of the Wild runs at 4K at 60 fps, with MVG saying that enhanced visuals are expected
• MVG says that Nintendo focusing on loading performance and the way data is stored is very big and tells him that Nintendo has new tech that people will know about in due course
• MVG wonders how much the Nintendo Switch's successor would cost, but he decides to continue talking about the reports from Eurogamer and Video Games Chronicle rather than speculate on the price
• MVG mentioned the time will come for a price prediction for the Nintendo Switch's successor

Matrix Awakens Full RTX on Switch 2 Beyond PS5/Series X?

• NateDrake mentioned the Video Games Chronicle corroborated Eurogamer's report, but went beyond, reporting Nintendo was showcasing The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo, which was originally showcased on the Xbox Series X|S and the PlayStation 5 in 2021, running on hardware that has comparable or similar specs with the Nintendo Switch's successor, not on native hardware, citing the Video Games Chronicle's own sources
• NateDrake speculated The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo could have been
• running on a PC with comparable specs
• a video that Nintendo was using to show what was achieved on devkits
• MVG mentioned that he remembered after downloading The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo that he was impressed
• MVG thinks that people making assumptions that the Nintendo Switch's successor is more powerful than the PlayStation 5 and/or the Xbox Series X|S is a very dangerous assumption to make, especially since no one knows which hardware The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo was running on, and The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo was most certainly running via DLSS and probably via Frame Generation
• MVG re-iterates what NateDrake said about raw performance no longer being the most important factor, saying that being smart in key areas to make the performance run exceptionally well at a handheld resolution or a docked resolution in a hybrid console is the most important, which based on the Video Games Chronicle's report, was done well, with NateDrake concurring
• NateDrake also mentioned the Video Games Chronicle reported on the visuals on The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo being comparable to what's shown on the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X|S, with Video Games Chronicles later clarifying that doesn't mean the Nintendo Switch's successor's raw performance is close to comparable with the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X|S
• NateDrake has heard that The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo showcased very advanced ray tracing that's identical, if not better, than what's shown on the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X|S in terms of The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo
• NateDrake said the Nintendo Switch's successor may have surpassed the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X|S in terms of the implementation of ray tracing in The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo
• MVG asked NateDrake to confirm that before the Nintendo Switch was formally unveiled that there was an Unreal Engine 4 demo being showcased, with NateDrake confirming the Elementals Unreal Engine 4 tech demo was showcased
• MVG thinks Epic circling back with Nintendo and showcase new tech on Nintendo's new hardware was always going to be the case, which MVG is very excited to hear, although he doesn't know if the floodgates will open with more Unreal Engine 5 games coming out
• MVG's excited that Epic seems to have been preparing a version of Unreal Engine 5 for the Nintendo Switch's successor, which he thinks developers are excited about as well
• NateDrake said he wouldn't be surprised if the The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo was a means of showing that the Nintendo Switch's successor is Unreal Engine 5 compatible, and how much can be achieved when paired with DLSS
• MVG learnt that when Epic is showcasing something, Epic is making a statement to investors, the public, and/or developers, that Unreal Engine 5 is already ready for the Nintendo Switch's successor, and the tools are already be available when developers are ready to make games, unlike other engines (e.g. Unity, etc.)
• NateDrake thinks that showcasing The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo demonstrates that the Nintendo Switch's successor's capable at running at a fidelity comparable to the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X|S as reported by the Video Games Chronicle, and how Unreal Engine 5 plays well with Nvidia's technology (e.g. DLSS) that the Nintendo Switch's successor supports
• NateDrake mentions there was uncertainty about the frame rate The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo was running at on the Nintendo Switch's successor, with MVG commenting on being surprised if The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo was running faster than on the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X|S, which is around 25 fps, not because of performance, but rather to achieve that film aesthetic
• NateDrake mentioned that obviously,  developers would naturally ask Epic what's the resolution The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo was running at without enabling DLSS, which NateDrake doesn't have answers to, since that's not the point of The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo, since the purpose was to show The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo with DLSS enabled, and what can be achieved
• NateDrake has heard that developers were impressed by what was shown with The Matrix Awakens Unreal Engine 5 tech demo
• NateDrake thinks that if DLSS is a base feature that every game has access to and can utilise, the Nintendo Switch's successor can be considered a magic box that can punch well above its weight, with MVG concuring
• MVG said as a developer, he's very excited about what was reported on about the Nintendo Switch's successor, and he hopes he can learn more when the time comes

[close]

Tra le cose che reputo interessanti (e forse inattese?), la - sempre presunta fino a prova contraria, rimangono voci dopotutto - attenzione di Nintendo verso i tempi di caricamento bassi.

Blocco nascosto

Release & Reveal Timing Discussed at Gamescom?

• NateDrake mentioned there was other talk outside of the two tech demos with respect to the Nintendo Switch's successor that piqued his curiosity, which he couldn't get full clarity
• NateDrake heard a lot of talk at Gamescom of March 2024 with respect to the Nintendo Switch's successor
• MVG was surprised, asking if that's referring to the release date, with NateDrake mentioning there was no clarity if March 2024 is for a release date, a release window, or a reveal date
• MVG admitted March 2024 was not in his bingo card since he thought the Nintendo Switch's successor's coming out in 2H 2024 based on the fact that developers need roughly at least 12 months to familiarise with new hardware
• MVG thinks that talks of March 2024 means that Nintendo needs to announce new hardware really soon, which MVG can't see a reveal happening this year, due to Super Mario Wonder, and the OLED model and Nintendo Switch Lite bundles, releasing next month
• NateDrake said that March 2024 was mentioned during Gamescom more than once, but without specific context
• NateDrake thinks most people would agree that March 2024's referring to the reveal date since that's when the current fiscal year ends where 15 million Nintendo Switch units are projected to be sold, and that gives Nintendo enough time to reveal and plan a 6 month marketing cycle
• If March 2024 is referring to a release, NateDrake mentioned that as MVG said, Nintendo has to reveal the hardware in the near future, or else Nintendo has a very limited marketing window and lead up, which NateDrake said Nintendo feasibly could do, mentioning people will bring up the Nintendo Switch being announced on October 2016, a showcase in January 2017, and release in March 2017
• NateDrake mentioned that people have to remember that Nintendo announced the intention of releasing Nintendo Switch, which at the time was known as the Nintendo NX, in March 2017, on April 2016, almost a full year before launch
• NateDrake mentioned that with any hardware manufacturer typically announces working on or intentions of releasing a successor 10-12 months before release, which Sony did with the PlayStation 5 and was very open with investors, and Microsoft discussed a little bit of the Xbox One's successor before officially revealing the Xbox Series X|S during the Games Awards in 2019, before releasing the Xbox Series X|S 11 months after
• NateDrake thinks that March 2024 being the release date would be a very unprecedented situation where there's no open communication from Nintendo to investors or consumers about having active plans to release a successor in the near future, since right now is the beginning of September, and Nintendo hasn't officially announced any intentions to release a successor to the Nintendo Switch, although that's obvious, given NateDrake and MVG have discussed devkits being distributed, and NateDrake and MVG are currently discussing the tech demos at Gamescom, and Tokyo Game Show is coming around the corner
• NateDrake wonders how Nintendo will play its hand if March 2024 is the release date since no company has played its hand like this before, unless people want to count Sega with its abysmal roll out of the Sega Saturn, with MVG commenting "oof, bad old days"
• MVG said a March 2024 release is hard to wrap his head around, but Nintendo may have its own plans
• MVG asked NateDrake what video game should launch with the Nintendo Switch's successor if March 2024 is the release date, with MVG mentioning the rumoured 3D Super Mario Bros. game, with NateDrake answering maybe Metroid Prime 4 as a cross-gen release, with MVG replying that Metroid Prime 4 is that one video game with no real visibility, with a lot of rumours with unknown verifiability going around about Metroid Prime 4 being a cross-gen game, considering Nintendo has done this before, which is possible
• MVG thinks that dropping a 3D Super Mario Bros. game and Metroid Prime 4, making Nintendo Switch Online (NSO) available to anyone with a Nintendo account and a NSO subscription, and dropping some Nintendo Switch games with patches (e.g. Breath of the Wild) alongside the Nintendo Switch's successor for a March 2024 release would be a very compelling launch
• NateDrake wants to emphasise that the discussion of March 2024 at Gamescom isn't informed speculation, but actually what he heard from conversations about Gamescom, although there's no context about if March 2024 is the release date, a launch window, or a reveal date
• NateDrake thinks March 2024 could be a window where Nintendo asks third party partners to finish up projects (by the end of March 2024) since Nintendo plans on launching hardware a couple months later (e.g. June 2024), which happened to Sony with the PlayStation 5 when Sony asked third party partners to submit games by mid-September 2020 if third party partners are planning a launch day release in November 2020, so Sony can go through log check, the certification process, and there's reasonable time to address bugs and issues
• NateDrake also thinks Nintendo could have planned to release the Nintendo Switch's successor as early as March 2024
• MVG said he's still betting on the Nintendo Switch's successor launching in 2H 2024
• However, he thinks hearing March 2024 being talked about at Gamescom is interesting and definitely throws a wrench
• NateDrake mentioned trying to get clarity about March 2024 being talked about at Gamescom from his sources since Gamescom with no success thus far
• MVG still believes the 2023 is all about the Nintendo Switch with Super Mario Wonder, Super Mario RPG, and the OLED model and Nintendo Switch Lite bundles, with the Nintendo Direct having to be planned for September 2023, with NateDrake mentioning a Nintendo Drake is planned 3 days after this Nate the Hate episode is uploaded, if not announced already by Nintendo
• NateDrake said he would like to agree with MVG, but all the talk about March 2024 at Gamescom gives him great pause
• The lack of clarity from his sources makes me think a March 2024 release is likely, although he also thinks a March 2024 reveal also makes sense, making this a flip in the coin
• MVG agrees that a March 2024 reveal makes sense
• NateDrake mentions the hardware industry is very fluid and is dependent on the many cogs and gears moving at the right time with respect to mass production, software being ready
• So because of that, one of the two scenarios: March 2024 being a release day or March 2024 being a reveal date could happen
• NateDrake wonders if March 2024 comes up again at the Tokyo Game Show
• And if so, he hopes the Tokyo Game Show provides clarity on what Nintendo's intentions are for March 2024 in terms of a release window or a reveal
• MVG mentions Nintendo did have a presence in the business area and asks NateDrake if he's aware if Nintendo will have a similar presence at the Tokyo Game Show, with NateDrake answer he believes Nintendo does have a business meeting room, but not a show floor presence, in the Tokyo Game Show
• MVG thinks there's a lot of smoke, there's only a matter of time people will hear more from Nintendo, and he bets March 2024 is when people will hear more about the Nintendo Switch's successor
• NateDrake mentioned that March 2024 is a point of curiosity that he will be looking at with great focus (pun intended), with MVG being surprised, and NateDrake saying the Nintendo Switch's successor's not called the "Nintendo Focus"

Back-Compat Gamescom Clarity?

• NateDrake has heard a little bit of discussion about backwards compatibility for the Nintendo Switch's successor
• NateDrake hasn't received any clarity with respect to backwards compatibility
• MVG thinks that the Breath of the Wild tech demo reported by Eurogamer confused people to the point people think backwards compatibility is implied
• MVG think the Breath of the Wild tech demo doesn't really answer any questions about backwards compatibility since the Breath of the Wild tech demo was most likely curated and running native code, not running an emulation layer or wrapper, since the Breath of the Wild tech demo was there to showcase specific technical features to third party developers, so third party developers can understand what the hardware looks like and some things third party developers can leverage when developing next gen games
• Therefore, MVG thinks nobody's closer to answering the question about backwards compatibility based on the Breath of the Wild tech demo, and he hopes that people will learn more about backwards compatibility at a later date
• NateDrake re-iterated that the Breath of the Wild tech demo is all about showcasing the loading times being erased, going from the main menu to the game, with no splash screen, outside of the high resolution and high frame rate (via DLSS)
• NateDrake mentioned the tech demos at Gamescom were meant to be about showcasing what can be done with the Nintendo Switch's successor and not necessarily about showcasing all the features of the Nintendo Switch's successor
• NateDrake speculates backwards compatibility could be a talking point at the Tokyo Game Show that can reported by the media or that NateDrake hears from his sources
• NateDrake re-iterates that he mentioned in a previous episode (on 2 August 2023) that he and MVG believe the Nintendo Switch's successor needs backwards compatibility and he and MVG would be very concerned if the Nintendo Switch's successor doesn't have backwards compatibility

[close]

Seconda parte. Alla faccia del riassunto.

Potresti riassumere tu i punti salienti? 
Magari li ho già sentiti in quest'ottimo video:



magari c'è pure dell'altro! Grazie.

Neppure io l'ho letto tutto onestamente non lo definirei un buon riassunto... siamo quasi dalle parti della trascrizione, ma a volte serve il dono della sintesi.

Comunque leggevo che in sostanza DF sarebbe un po' più scettica di Natedrake e soci riguardo le potenzialità di questa macchina.

Dal canto mio, non posso che ribadire quanto io ritenga ragionevole prendere con le pinze tutte 'ste mappazze più o meno all'apparenza "credibili", manca poco che la gente si aspetti una PS5 da passeggio e così a mio parere ci si fa solo del male.

Loro parlavano che probabilmente si assesterà su una series s anche per favorire conversioni di giochi attuali molto più facilmente, il che a mio parere sarebbe ottimo.

Citazione di: Ifride il 13 Settembre, 2023, 10:30:04Loro parlavano che probabilmente si assesterà su una series s anche per favorire conversioni di giochi attuali molto più facilmente, il che a mio parere sarebbe ottimo.

E secondo me rimane un'aspettativa estremamente ottimistica, in termini di forza bruta, per una console che vorrebbe uscire nel 2024

Citazione di: Buds95 il 13 Settembre, 2023, 10:40:38E secondo me rimane un'aspettativa estremamente ottimistica, in termini di forza bruta, per una console che vorrebbe uscire nel 2024

Se è una custom dell'orin T234 potrebbe anche giocarsela con series S, ma bisogna vedere costi consumi e calore dissipato. Se è quel T239 (anch'esso derivato da orin) di cui si vociferava l'anno scorso siamo dalle parti di ps4.
Boh io sono d'accordo nel tenere le aspettative bassissime 

Però secondo me non si deve esagerare neppure al contrario, della serie "Mi basta che si accenda" (cit.)

Citazione di: Turrican3 il 13 Settembre, 2023, 11:26:59Però secondo me non si deve esagerare neppure al contrario, della serie "Mi basta che si accenda" (cit.)

Ma in questo caso se poi è una console carrozzata vieni stupito in positivo, se parti con l' idea della ps5 portatile il cetriolo globale (cit.) viene facilmente indirizzato 

Ah quello sicuramente.

Per cui: finché Series S è rilevante e supportata saremmo a posto, successivamente da capo a dodici.

Niente di nuovo insomma

Credo sarebbe comunque una situazione migliore rispetto ad oggi.

Ma tant'è, troppe incognite ancora e ovviamente poi bisogna pure vedere come andrà commercialmente, che nel caso di Nintendo è la cosa che di solito pesa di più.

Citazione di: Blasor il 19 Settembre, 2023, 14:44:01Per cui: finché Series S è rilevante e supportata saremmo a posto, successivamente da capo a dodici.

Niente di nuovo insomma

Fino al 2027-28 staremmo col culo parato 

p.s. Bentornato