[Industry] Immersion On PS3, Wii and More

Aperto da .:|Physalis|:., 4 Agosto, 2006, 12:18:51

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Immersion was kind enough to invite The Game Feed for a chat with the minds that help bring rumbling to every gamer, Victor Viegas, CEO and President of Immersion and Gale Schaeffer, Vice President, Corporate Marketing. Here, Victor speaks frankly of their latest next-gen technology, TouchSense, how the rumble feature contributes to the enhancement and realism in next-gen gameplay, the controversy over Sony's decision to take away vibration in the PS3 controller and setting the record straight over motion sensing and rumble compatibility.

The Game Feed: How do you feel about the result of the [Sony] litigation outcome?

Victor: I'm very disappointed that we couldn't resolve our differences through discussions and a resolution that would have worked out for both parties. The sad part is that there are apparent decisions to remove vibration, that maybe a reaction to the fact that they are losing in court. I think it's disappointing that it will impact the customer, which is the gamer, not to mention market share, profits for Sony. I'm disappointed, would be the way I describe it.

TGF: Has all discussion seized or are you guys still talking to Sony and trying to work something out still?

Victor: I'm an optimist. Always hope there is a way to resolve this. We've talk to them in the past. We continue to extend an interest to continue our dialogue. We're happy to keep the dialogue going.

TGF: So obviously you've tried to get your new TouchSense Technology into the new PS3 controllers. I'm sure that will be ideal for you guys. So what would be your internal deadline to make sure that Sony get this technology and has time to implement it before their November launch?

Victor: Well, we don't really know what Sony's plans are at the launch date. All we know is what ha been communicated in a single sentence of a press release, that they were removing vibration, whether or not they've resolved that technical conflict. Something we don't know [is] what's actually ship[ing] in November. We just don't know. So we really don't know what they are going to do. But at this point, we still have to time to help them resolve their problem and we have time to provide them with our SDK and with the technology necessary to bring this next-gen gaming technology to the market place.

TGF: What about bringing this technology to the Microsoft community, a new version of the Xbox 360 controller?

Victor: We love to present and provide them with the technology under license. We are in that process, demonstrating, showing the value and trying to schedule those types of meetings to have that kind of discussion.

TGF: So is that something ongoing or planned for the future?

Victor: I can't really give you the sense of current dialogue but it would be our hope that we would be able to work with them and bring this technology to the market. At least on that platform and hopefully on the three major platforms, from Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony.

TGF: As you know, Nintendo's rumble technology has their own internal development. I'm not saying that you do, but if you were to have a "hit list," are they next?

Victor: Well, we haven't yet seen what their product is capable of doing. We [are] like everybody else, anxious to see the product launch, [to] play with it and take a looked at how they implement their technology.

Gayle: Actually, were you at E3?

TGF: Yes.

Gayle: Were you able to experience their rumble feedback?

TGF: Yes.

Gayle: Was it on same level as PS2?

TGF: Yes, but it wasn't as nearly as detail as your TouchSense Technology, obviously. I think more people were more focused on the actual gameplay and motion sensing then the rumble. I didn't feel any leap in technology. It's probably just the old technology. Obviously they somehow modified it to allow motion sensing. Curious though, there has been a lot of internet gaming sites saying you are very suspicious of Nintendo technology and whether or not they are infringing on your technology.

Victor: Until we see and take a look at their product. It's too hard to tell.

TGF: Did you get a chance to play [Wii] at E3 at all?

Victor: I personally didn't, but we had a hand full of Immersion employees there and they did get to play [Wii]. They felt the rumble and they thought it was equivalent to today's standards. Obviously not as nearly [as] good as we can make available but they did feel it.

Gayle: And I think like Vic said, it's best to sit down and negotiate and bring the technology forward to consumers. This isn't about whom you're gong to sue next.

Victor: Right.

TGF: Right.

Victor: If you looked at our background. As a company we're really fundamentally a license company. You may or may not know we have over 600 patents that were issued or pending. So the life blood of the company is royalty income form that patent portfolio. We have some of the world experts that have the technology in development constantly and inventing new solutions. And when we are achieving breakthroughs, we file for and usually obtain a patent and the beauty of the patent system is that you get protection. Unfortunately, those patents are published where people can read and how to create this new technology. So we do have to enforce the patent portfolio periodically.

If you looked back to the company's history since 1993 and its founding, I think we only sued a very small handful of people. I think we're talking about four companies total of three different lawsuits and in two to three of those lawsuits we've entered into a license agreement and resolved our differences. And [there is] only one case we haven't and its Sony. So we're hardly a logistic company after thirteen years and the technology that we've sued under is really the same area, which is gaming.

We haven't had dispute or battle in cell phone space, where we work with companies like Samsung and major operators like Verizon and Sprint Nextel, and in the automotive industry where we license to Volkswagen to BMW; to supply communities like Methron and Alps. So if you go through each of our businesses we have very healthy relationships either licensing technology or performing developing work for them or producing products. Metron in the medical space, these are the largest companies in the world. They are industry leaders', great partners', great licensing partners of ours. It's only these very few companies that choose not to work out fair deal.

TGF: Okay, fair enough. Obviously you are trying to get all three major console companies on your side. How is that relationship going with Nintendo who typically likes to do things themselves?

Victor: Well, we haven't licensed our technology to Nintendo. They haven't yet launched their product so we haven't seen their system. In terms of actively engaging them and showing them what we have to offer, we have met with them in the past. We've shown them. They've chosen not to license the technology. Again we need to wait and [see] what the product does.

TGF: So what about third party hardware accessories like MadCatz or Logitech? I'm sure you've shown your technology to them and have received it well. How soon can we see this on the market?

Victor: Well, I'm not sure how many of our license partners we have demonstrated this [to]. This is something that is pretty contemporary technology that we just now started to show. I'm not sure if we have shown at that level. The technology requires obviously a new actuator in the controller itself. We've believe that the new technology would not consume any more power and would not be more expensive. Actually be less expensive to implement on the controller side.

So that's one part of the technology. The other part of the technology would be creating the code and instruction at the game level. So this is where our SDK would be useful to create the vibration effects in the game. So that when that game is played you could feel the corresponding vibration in the controller. So in order to get this in front of the developing community we would need to work with the console manufacture. We need to have access to their communication links and have that understanding and up to now, and in Sony's case, it appears they do not have any interest in trying to participate in this or be a party to this.

TGF: Right. Okay.

Gayle: So if you think about this. Our code has to be in the game. So if Logitech has one of our new actuator type controllers, it couldn't play unless Immersion codes are in the game. So they are kind of on the backend of the industry decision making and implementation the console guys have to be on.

TGF: Well, have you've tried to speak directly to the developer, showing them the technology and maybe have them put pressure on Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo to include this?

Gayle: [laughs] He needs a marking job here.

Victor: Yeah. We're doing just that. And we're showing them the ease of use of the tool. We're showing them the value [of TouchSense and how it] increases realism in gameplay. They're excited and we're going to continue to promote and show the value on the developer side. That's part of a program. An indication program we're working on now.

TGF: Anyone you can name in particular?

Gayle: We should point out that many companies that develop console games as mobile games have either picked up, acquired, or developed internally their mobile games. So the big companies have mobile games units and we're working with mobile game side now, mobility and mobile phones and we would like to work with the console side as well. You think about the convergence we've talked about between the two kinds of markets, mobile and console gaming.

Victor: So there's a technology relationship that we need between the game and the controller. There's also the license right that third parties need and it's not yet clear as what Sony's third party strategy is. They may in fact restrict or limit the ability of third parties to produce controllers at all or controllers that have vibration feedback in them.

TGF: Okay. Another question I have refers to one of the reason PS3 [won't have rumble]. Sony said they are not using rumble [because] it interferes with their motion sensing, which obviously by this new technology is kind of doubtful. So can you explain how [TouchSense] versus old rumble technology [works]? What make this capable of motion sensing?

Victor: That's an interesting way of [asking] the question, because we are not aware of any impediment to allow the previous version to force feedback with or toward motion sensing. So Nintendo, obliviously, has demonstrated at E3 they have motion sensing with a small vibration licensing company of ours, EDimensional. They have motion sensing with vibration technology. I don't know if you've seen a podcast. I think it was kind of humorous. But I think somebody acquired on EBay [a] 1999 pelican controller and a 1995 version of Warhawk. The game and was able to play on the PS2 platform using motion sensing and getting very good quality vibration effects at the same time.

So you can see how it's interesting to see this person demonstrate, supposedly impossible, only to demonstrate it is possible. Unfortunately, depending on your opinion, I'm not sure if take motion sensing technology with a tremendous amount of support or obvious value in the market place. If you're aware, Microsoft supposedly launch[ed] a motion sensing controller some number of 6-7 yrs ago. I've seen a few press clipping where they talk about they have intro[duced] it to the marketplace and [motion sensing] kind of came in [and] went without much fan fare.

So, just as a gamer myself, how many times am I going to move, twist and grab a soda, lean on the coach and have it completely affect my gameplay? How many games do I want to play have that capability present? I'm not sure but I don't believe that this technology hurdle is something that couldn't be resolved and when our engineers took a look at it over a very short period of time that they came back to me with three different ways to solve the problem.

TGF: So how does this make you react when Sony claims that these two technologies weren't compatible?

Victor: Well that was their choice of words. I was disappointed by their apparent decision to remove vibration from the PS3 controller and we've offered to fix the problem for them. But they haven't shown any interest. I think they are more interested in producing and selling a product they feel is right for the customer regardless what the customer's feedback is. Our feedback from the gaming community has teams of people that use vibration, that appreciate vibration. Even today's standards, without giving them access to next-generation [rumble] or new technology where it's really engaging. But the old standard [rumble], older capability, people really like them. It's rare that people would turn it off or stop using it. Now is it the #1 feature? Does it overwhelm pricing or other aspect of gameplay? Probably not, but that's something that becomes essential and expected element of gameplay.

When you go buy a car, you assume it will have windshield wipers. You assume it will have lights, and for somebody to tell you that you really don't need windshield wipers or you don't need your front head lights, making that choice for you doesn't seem to be in a competitive world. So why they choose to do this? Not sure. It definitely conflicts with what we believe the market is saying and where we believe there is a technological solution. I'm not sure why but we are disappointed that [Sony is] apparently making this decision.

TGF: Okay, one last question. With the last rumble technology, apparently what your study also shows, gamers couldn't see beyond what they've already experienced with rumble and now you've shown there is more. So what's next after this in terms of rumble technology?

Victor: Well, that's a tough question. As Gayle mentioned, we're definitely more into gaming on other platforms such as cell phones and using our technology to enhance gameplaying. Cell phone is natural and something that we can do, that we have done. There are over a million phones in the market place with bi-tone technology. So we're feeling we have real success there. The next-gen technology can continue to improve, become more precise, improve on tolls so there always ways to improve what we currently have. Going beyond that, I think we're probably too far of a stretch right now to consider. What we really want to do is show the value of what we have today. We think it is state of the art. We think it's really what the gaming community wants and expects from a next-gen platform.

In today's world you would want to see every blade of grass in a football game. Quality sound with Dolby 5.1 sound system so you can hear everything going on. Imagine a Madden game, so you can see the grass and hear everything going on around you. You would expect to feel the information, a lot of activities going on in the gameplay whether it's getting tackled by a defender, or catching a pass, or throwing a pass. Just the raindrops coming down in the middle of the game. They want to feel that they are engaged. So we think our next-gen does that. It's a leap in technology and it compliments the other two. Enhanced graphics and sounds give a much more realistic experienced gameplay. Now take that and remove vibration completely. To me it doesn't warrant the name next-gen.

TGF: Well, actually that part brought up another question. You've mentioned 5.1 surround sound and all of these other devices to enhance the experience. Some companies are experimenting with rumble in seats. Have you thought about going beyond controllers to other devices such as furniture?

Gayle: That really would be our partners, third parties, because we don't actually produce hardware. Think of our technology as an enabling technology. So lots of people can take our technology implemented into their various forms factors, maybe a steering wheel, maybe a joystick, maybe a game controller, or maybe some other kind of seat of device.

TGF: Okay, interesting.

Victor: Okay, so when we work with our partners, they have lots of different ideas. Typically, class products include steering wheel, joystick and controller. But there are other companies that experiment with fishing rods and baseball bats or other kinds of devices that are a little more similar and a little more realistic to whatever game they are playing. So we would implement our technology and synchronize with gameplay and make it part of this realistic environment. If people want to move into rumbling seats or other areas we could work with them on that. But as Gayle said, we don't produce products in that space, we provide technology.

Gayle: And a little bit around your question of what's next. Our technology enables a sense of artistry. It's the game developers that can take this technology and like great music composer can compose music. It's really the imagination and artistic elements of creating those tactical sensations. That's really on the fore front. There's guy out there like Kojima that's really doing a great job and that's what we hope the industry will take our technology to higher and higher levels of what you might call expressions of the technology.

TGF: Okay, sounds good. Thank you for having us.

Victor: Thank you for coming.